I hope you are right, Blair. But Sturgeon wriggles out of every misstep, scandal, mishandling and still her stock is high. I can’t understand why so many people vote for her party. And how we dislodge from these people the lies from the SNP’s mammoth propaganda operation is hard to envisage, given how deeply they are embedded.
All good points Blair. Nicola has been stuck for a while and now she has made the wrong move. However it requires skilled and determined opposition to take advantage of that, which can only come from Labour.
The party seems still very reluctant to discuss the constitutional issue in general and to make sharp criticisms of Nicola Sturgeon in particular and I think that has to change.
in addition to the points you make the whole process of a one off referendum is inherently unfair and dishonest. Nicola defended the Brexit process last week because she wants to repeat it but it was in fact the biggest con in British political history.
Her Brexit would outmatch it. Most of the key promises she would make in a referendum campaign would be broken afterwards if she won.
Labour seems to lack the self confidence to go on the attack. We still tend to use even the language of the nationalists, particularly the loaded and misleading term "independence".
In other words there is still all to fight for. Let us get stuck in and we can free Scotland and the UK from the curse of nationalism.
Never-endum Nicola Sturgeon is just resorting to desperation to retain power and building up her pension fund. She cares nothing of the will of the "people of Scotland", if she did she'd accept the 2014 result and concentrate on fixing the very real issues under her responsibility, rather than compound and exacerbate by the turmoil of another "Neverendum".
The SNP have never accepted, reviewed and resolved the issues which led to their defeat in 2014. The world has changed from Brexit and the pandemic to war in Europe. Meanwhile the SNP continues to bang their heads against the same brick wall in their wild goose chase. It's pathetic.
The SNP, sic a parcel o' rogues and charlatans in a nation...
As for the Bannockburn nonsense, it's ironic they are celebrating a Anglo Norman warlord's defeat of another Anglo Norman warlord for territory and power in the British Isles.
They are prisoners of Scottish myths, the "gory" days of being owned by a "king" and without any "freedom". They certainly don't appear to know or appreciate history.
A strong UK governement is what is needed, A Labour gov, A Lab/Lib Dem gov or at the very least (and least desirable) a Conservative gov lead by a sensible leader with Scottish heritage (Stewart or Wallace) enact a clarity act and put an end to this interminable debacle. It worked in Canada and they are a similar country to ours, similarly reigned over by this monarchy, similarly democratic with our parliamentary systems and unfortunately similarly divided. We must deliver a vision for the UK as a singular country and as many regions within that country working towards a common goal of prosperity and fairness.
Regarding your final paragraph, I think that ship has sailed, in light of the recent pronouncement by the hapless John Swinney that the would be prepared to work with Sinn Féin. That statement alone should lead to proscription of the SNP from the body politic, and disallow them from any meetings and activities regarding the country’s security.
"where people wear T-shirts with medieval proclamations about not submitting to another ethnic group, where they burn flags, where they dress as warlords and brandish weapons without it being, well, more than a bit fash. "
Wait, isn't the *checks notes* national bleeding anthem "rebellios Scots to crush"???
No it isn't. Because as Mark has said that never happened. But even if it did, that is, at best an argument that says 'other people have terrible nationalism so it's ok if we do too!'
Never part of the national anthem, another grievance myth. "God Save The King" was a populist music hall song which was sung by Hanoverian and Jacobite supporters, and became the National Anthem by popular use rather than decree.
The anti Jacobite lyric (rebellious Scots), was part of that pre Anthem music hall period, added for a short time post Culloden, but never fully part of the song once used as the anthem.
But you could think of Flower Of Scotland which is all about a past battle and sending the defeated Edward "homeward to think again".
I know nationalists aren't always aligned with fact but come on. A 'Lord' deigning 'I think the national anthem is an important part of our national tradition.' is vomit inducing.
And just before you strawman me like Blair, no, I don't condone Nationalism. I'm merely here to point out the hypocrisy.
But the "Lord" was wrong and that verse was never an official verse. But the weird thing is that the national anthem was adopted rather than an official sanctioned one.
Anyway to that verse which referred to rebellious Scots i.e. Jacobites.
"Around 1745, anti-Jacobite sentiment was captured in a verse appended to the song, with a prayer for the success of Field Marshal George Wade's army then assembling at Newcastle. These words attained some short-term use, although they did not appear in the published version in the October 1745 Gentleman's Magazine. This verse was first documented as an occasional addition to the original anthem by Richard Clark in 1822,[41] and was also mentioned in a later article on the song, published by the Gentleman's Magazine in October 1836. Therein, it is presented as an "additional verse... though being of temporary application only... stored in the memory of an old friend... who was born in the very year 1745, and was thus the associate of those who heard it first sung", the lyrics given being.
The 1836 article and other sources make it clear that this verse was not used soon after 1745, and certainly before the song became accepted as the British national anthem in the 1780s and 1790s"
I hope you are right, Blair. But Sturgeon wriggles out of every misstep, scandal, mishandling and still her stock is high. I can’t understand why so many people vote for her party. And how we dislodge from these people the lies from the SNP’s mammoth propaganda operation is hard to envisage, given how deeply they are embedded.
All good points Blair. Nicola has been stuck for a while and now she has made the wrong move. However it requires skilled and determined opposition to take advantage of that, which can only come from Labour.
The party seems still very reluctant to discuss the constitutional issue in general and to make sharp criticisms of Nicola Sturgeon in particular and I think that has to change.
in addition to the points you make the whole process of a one off referendum is inherently unfair and dishonest. Nicola defended the Brexit process last week because she wants to repeat it but it was in fact the biggest con in British political history.
Her Brexit would outmatch it. Most of the key promises she would make in a referendum campaign would be broken afterwards if she won.
Labour seems to lack the self confidence to go on the attack. We still tend to use even the language of the nationalists, particularly the loaded and misleading term "independence".
In other words there is still all to fight for. Let us get stuck in and we can free Scotland and the UK from the curse of nationalism.
Never-endum Nicola Sturgeon is just resorting to desperation to retain power and building up her pension fund. She cares nothing of the will of the "people of Scotland", if she did she'd accept the 2014 result and concentrate on fixing the very real issues under her responsibility, rather than compound and exacerbate by the turmoil of another "Neverendum".
The SNP have never accepted, reviewed and resolved the issues which led to their defeat in 2014. The world has changed from Brexit and the pandemic to war in Europe. Meanwhile the SNP continues to bang their heads against the same brick wall in their wild goose chase. It's pathetic.
The SNP, sic a parcel o' rogues and charlatans in a nation...
As for the Bannockburn nonsense, it's ironic they are celebrating a Anglo Norman warlord's defeat of another Anglo Norman warlord for territory and power in the British Isles.
They are prisoners of Scottish myths, the "gory" days of being owned by a "king" and without any "freedom". They certainly don't appear to know or appreciate history.
A strong UK governement is what is needed, A Labour gov, A Lab/Lib Dem gov or at the very least (and least desirable) a Conservative gov lead by a sensible leader with Scottish heritage (Stewart or Wallace) enact a clarity act and put an end to this interminable debacle. It worked in Canada and they are a similar country to ours, similarly reigned over by this monarchy, similarly democratic with our parliamentary systems and unfortunately similarly divided. We must deliver a vision for the UK as a singular country and as many regions within that country working towards a common goal of prosperity and fairness.
Regarding your final paragraph, I think that ship has sailed, in light of the recent pronouncement by the hapless John Swinney that the would be prepared to work with Sinn Féin. That statement alone should lead to proscription of the SNP from the body politic, and disallow them from any meetings and activities regarding the country’s security.
she is on her way out and it will happen before Oct 2023 .... probably just after the supreme court decision
"where people wear T-shirts with medieval proclamations about not submitting to another ethnic group, where they burn flags, where they dress as warlords and brandish weapons without it being, well, more than a bit fash. "
Wait, isn't the *checks notes* national bleeding anthem "rebellios Scots to crush"???
No it isn't. Because as Mark has said that never happened. But even if it did, that is, at best an argument that says 'other people have terrible nationalism so it's ok if we do too!'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7126929.stm
It's not a terrible argument, simply because you don't like it. Who said anything about it being OK by the way?
So there we have it, you're factually incorrect and now putting words in people's mouths. The actions of a true nationalist.
Never part of the national anthem, another grievance myth. "God Save The King" was a populist music hall song which was sung by Hanoverian and Jacobite supporters, and became the National Anthem by popular use rather than decree.
The anti Jacobite lyric (rebellious Scots), was part of that pre Anthem music hall period, added for a short time post Culloden, but never fully part of the song once used as the anthem.
But you could think of Flower Of Scotland which is all about a past battle and sending the defeated Edward "homeward to think again".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7126929.stm
I know nationalists aren't always aligned with fact but come on. A 'Lord' deigning 'I think the national anthem is an important part of our national tradition.' is vomit inducing.
And just before you strawman me like Blair, no, I don't condone Nationalism. I'm merely here to point out the hypocrisy.
But the "Lord" was wrong and that verse was never an official verse. But the weird thing is that the national anthem was adopted rather than an official sanctioned one.
Anyway to that verse which referred to rebellious Scots i.e. Jacobites.
"Around 1745, anti-Jacobite sentiment was captured in a verse appended to the song, with a prayer for the success of Field Marshal George Wade's army then assembling at Newcastle. These words attained some short-term use, although they did not appear in the published version in the October 1745 Gentleman's Magazine. This verse was first documented as an occasional addition to the original anthem by Richard Clark in 1822,[41] and was also mentioned in a later article on the song, published by the Gentleman's Magazine in October 1836. Therein, it is presented as an "additional verse... though being of temporary application only... stored in the memory of an old friend... who was born in the very year 1745, and was thus the associate of those who heard it first sung", the lyrics given being.
The 1836 article and other sources make it clear that this verse was not used soon after 1745, and certainly before the song became accepted as the British national anthem in the 1780s and 1790s"